Creeds?

[CurtisG]

I got a text from my wife this morning: Mom said you told her that you dont believe in creeds. What did you mean?
Alright Gloworms, I dont recall saying that. None the less I object to the Churches(Lutheran in Mom-in-laws case) recitation of Apostle's Creed and the Nicene Creed, not so much on theological grounds, but by the way they are given a scriptural reverence and yet they were statements written by men. The creeds were formulated with good intent, that is to codify just what it is that early Christians believed, yet now it has become an empty ritual for many as they recite it mechanically without really understanding what it means.

This is what Prophet Joseph Smith said about their creeds:

“.... and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt” (Joseph Smith – History 1:19).

Now to my questions:
1) Articles of Faith 1:1 are scriptures so therefore are acceptable for inclusion in Church service, correct?
2) Are the Articles recited in LDS meetings? Just curious, Lutherans recite various creeds routinely, while the evangelical or non denominational churches rarely do.
3) While the Nicene Creed is incompatible with LDS doctrine; according to one LDS author i found, the Apostles Creed should be acceptable to Mormons as long as "catholic Church" is clearly defined as "true Christianity". (not really a question, but give me your thoughts) FYI, the Apostles creed is vague enough to be acceptable to Unitarians and Oneness Pentecostals supposedly.
4)The Joseph Smith quote above was cited by what appears to be an "anti" site as a sort of gotcha...."why would the Apostles creed be an abomination if the LDS Church claims to agree with its points?" How do you respond to the critic who posed this question? My answer would be that the creeds are not abomination based strictly on content, they are abomination if for no other reason than that they were composed by men and are now given reverence and value as if they were scriptures sent from God. (I didnt verbatim quote from that site to avoid giving them a reference on GLO. Any admins or moderators that would like to read it in context can PM me for the link)
5)I cant imagine that the subject of creeds came up at random. Raise your hand if you think my wife got sucked into another uncomfortable conversation with her Mom about why we should come back to the Lutheran Church?

[loquaciousmomma]

I got a text from my wife this morning: Mom said you told her that you dont believe in creeds. What did you mean?
Alright Gloworms, I dont recall saying that. None the less I object to the Churches(Lutheran in Mom-in-laws case) recitation of Apostle's Creed and the Nicene Creed, not so much on theological grounds, but by the way they are given a scriptural reverence and yet they were statements written by men. The creeds were formulated with good intent, that is to codify just what it is that early Christians believed, yet now it has become an empty ritual for many as they recite it mechanically without really understanding what it means.

This is what Prophet Joseph Smith said about their creeds:


Now to my questions:
1) Articles of Faith 1:1 are scriptures so therefore are acceptable for inclusion in Church service, correct?

Yes, the articles of faith are suitable for quoting in talks and lessons in church.

2) Are the Articles recited in LDS meetings? Just curious, Lutherans recite various creeds routinely, while the evangelical or non denominational churches rarely do.

No, we do not recite them in meetings, with one exception. The Primary organization for children usually has the children read one article of faith each week together in order to help them memorize them. The reason for memorization is so that they will be able to use them to answer questions about the church from those who are curious about what we believe.

3) While the Nicene Creed is incompatible with LDS doctrine; according to one LDS author i found, the Apostles Creed should be acceptable to Mormons as long as "catholic Church" is clearly defined as "true Christianity". (not really a question, but give me your thoughts) FYI, the Apostles creed is vague enough to be acceptable to Unitarians and Oneness Pentecostals supposedly.


I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth. Okay
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord; Definitely okay
who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, We believe Jesus is the literal son of Heavenly Father
born of the Virgin Mary, Okay
suffered under Pontius Pilate, Yep
was crucified, dead, and buried; Absolutely
he descended into hell; We believe he went to the Spirit world and sent others to Spirit prison to preach.
the third day he rose again from the dead; Yes
he ascended into heaven, Yes
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; Yes
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. Yes
I believe in the Holy Ghost; Yes
the holy catholic Church; No, but if it said true christianity, it would be better.
the communion of saints; We believe in the ordinance of the sacrament as administered by the priesthood
the forgiveness of sins; Yes
the resurrection of the body; Yes
and the life everlasting. Yes
AMEN.




4)The Joseph Smith quote above was cited by what appears to be an "anti" site as a sort of gotcha...."why would the Apostles creed be an abomination if the LDS Church claims to agree with its points?" How do you respond to the critic who posed this question? My answer would be that the creeds are not abomination based strictly on content, they are abomination if for no other reason than that they were composed by men and are now given reverence and value as if they were scriptures sent from God. (I didnt verbatim quote from that site to avoid giving them a reference on GLO. Any admins or moderators that would like to read it in context can PM me for the link)

:l0 (2):

5)I cant imagine that the subject of creeds came up at random. Raise your hand if you think my wife got sucked into another uncomfortable conversation with her Mom about why we should come back to the Lutheran Church?

:l0 (2):

[zaro]

From past experience, I think you might be going deeper into this than needed. She is probably looking for a simple reason, like, "We believe they were valiant attempts by men to clarify Christ's teachings, but that they are not entirely accurate, so we don't accept them as valid."
Just my thoughts.
By the way, you are doing a great job of breaking it down and digging into it.

[CurtisG]

Thanks L-momma, with regard to "the communion of saints", I think that refers not to the actual sacrament, but to the fellowship or connection between all believers.
@zaro, i sure dont intend to go deep into the validity of the various creeds, I agree with the Apostles Creed as far as that is concerned, I'll just have to explain why i object to them being read in church and treated as if they were scriptures.

[KF7EEC]

Another point, the Articles of Faith have been scripture since the Pearl of Great Price was canonized in 1880.

The Apostle's Creed has not be canonized by any religious organization.

[DMGNUT]

In regards to CurtisG's first post, where he mentions what Joseph Smith said about creeds (as quoted from the Joseph Smith History)...
Not that the Lord would mince His words, (as the quote is specific that it's in regards to all creeds)...
But keep in mind that the Lord knows what we're thinking, and His comment may have been specific to whatever creed Joseph was asking (or thinking) about, when he prayed for guidance.
Just my 2 cents worth on a very old thread.
Having been raised as a Lutheran... never understood the point of "mindlessly" (my word) reciting something that was not the Word of God, but was written by men.