mirkwood
07-21-2009, 02:04 PM
I did not locate Part 1.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,637119-2,00.html
INTERVIEW WITH EPIDEMIOLOGIST TOM JEFFERSON
'A Whole Industry Is Waiting For A Pandemic'
Part 2: Contradictions between Scientific Findings and Practice
SPIEGEL: So why should we even speak of pandemics at all?
Jefferson: That's something you should ask the World Health Organization!
SPIEGEL: In your opinion, what do you think it takes to make a virus like the swine flu a global threat?Jefferson: Unfortunately, we can only say that we don't know. I suspect that the whole issue is much more complex than we are even able to imagine it today. Given all the viruses that produce flu-like symptoms, perhaps Robert Koch's postulate that one particular pathogen causes one particular disease doesn't go far enough. Why, for example, do we not get influenza in the summertime? In the end, the pathogen is there all year long! Already in the 19th century, the German chemist and hygienist Max von Pettenkofer had developed a theory about how the pathogen's contact with the environment can alter the disease. I think that research in this direction would be worthwhile. Perhaps it would allow us to understand the pandemic of 1918/1919 better or to be able to assess the dangers of swine flu.
SPIEGEL: Humans have better defenses today than they did in 1918, and it probably won't be long before we have a swine flu vaccine. Last week, Germany's federal government announced that it wanted to buy enough for 30 percent of the population. How much do you think that will protect us?
Jefferson: When it comes to pandemic vaccination, as we say in English, the proof is in the pudding. The proof is in using it. We'll see. It does generate an antibody response, but will it really guard against the disease?
SPIEGEL: Are you pessimistic about that?
Jefferson: No, I'm just saying I think we're about to find out (laughter). Let's have this conversation again in about a year's time, shall we?
SPIEGEL: For a number of years, as part of the Cochrane Collaboration (http://www.cochrane.org/), you have been systematically evaluating all the studies on immunization against seasonal influenza. How good does it work?
Jefferson: Not particularly good. An influenza vaccine is not working for the majority of influenza-like illnesses because it is only designed to combat influenza viruses. For that reason, the vaccine changes nothing when it comes to the heightened mortality rate during the winter months. And, even in the best of cases, the vaccine only works against influenza viruses to a limited degree. Among other things, there is always the danger that the flu virus in circulation will have changed by the time that the vaccine product is finished with the result that, in the worst case, the vaccine will be totally ineffectual. In the best of cases, the few decent studies that exist show that the vaccine mainly works with healthy young adults. With children and the elderly, it only helps a little, if at all.
SPIEGEL: But aren't those the exact groups that influenza immunization is recommended for?
Jefferson: Indeed. That's one of the contradictions between scientific findings and practice, between evidence and policy.
SPIEGEL: So, what's behind this contradiction?
Jefferson: Of course, that has something to do with the influence of the pharmaceutical industry. But it also has to do with the fact that the importance of influenza is completely overestimated. It has to do with research funds, power, influence and scientific reputations!
SPIEGEL: So, at the moment is it reasonable to keep vaccinating against seasonal influenza?
Jefferson: I can't see any reason for it, but I'm not a decision maker.
SPIEGEL: And what about Tamiflu and Relenza, two of the anti-flu medications that are being deployed against swine flu? How well do they really work?
Jefferson : If taken at the right time, on average, Tamiflu reduces the duration of a real influenza by one day. One study also found that it diminishes the risk of pneumonia.
SPIEGEL: Could these medications lower mortality rates associated with the flu?
Jefferson : That's possible, but it has yet to be scientifically proven.
SPIEGEL: And what about side effects?
Jefferson: Tamiflu can cause nausea. And there are things that point toward psychiatric side effects. There are reports coming out of Japan that young people who have taken Tamiflu have had acute psychotic reactions similar to those found in schizophrenics.
SPIEGEL: So, is it sensible to use such medications at all?
Jefferson : When it comes to severe disease, yes. But under no circumstances should Tamiflu be handed out to whole schools, as is currently sometimes being done. With that being the case, it doesn't surprise me at all that we're already hearing reports about resistant strains of swine flu.
SPIEGEL: In Germany, the government is supposed to stockpile flu medications for 20 percent of the population. Do you see that as being sensible?
Jefferson: Well, at least there are much cheaper ways to accomplish a lot more. For example, school children should be taught to wash their hands regularly -- preferrably after every class! And every airport should install a couple hundred wash basins. Whoever gets off a plane and doesn't wash their hands should be stopped by the border police. You could tell for example by putting an invisible, neutral dye in the water. And wearing masks can be sensible, as well.
SPIEGEL: Has it really been shown that these measures work?Jefferson : There are several good studies on this that were done during the SARS epidemic. They are so-called case-control studies that examined individuals that had had close contact with the SARS virus. They compared the characteristics of those who had been infected with the virus through this contact with those of people who had not been infected. These studies resulted in very clear results.
SPIEGEL: You sound pretty impressed.
Jefferson: I am. What's great about these measures is not only that they are inexpensive, but also that they can help against more than just influenza viruses. This method can fight against the 200 pathogens that bring about flu symptoms as well as against gastrointestinal viruses and completely unknown germs. One study done in Pakistan has shown that hand washing can even save children's lives. Someone should get a Nobel Prize for that!
SPIEGEL: Mr. Jefferson, we thank you for this interview.
Interview conducted by Johann Grolle and Veronika Hackenbroch.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,637119-2,00.html
INTERVIEW WITH EPIDEMIOLOGIST TOM JEFFERSON
'A Whole Industry Is Waiting For A Pandemic'
Part 2: Contradictions between Scientific Findings and Practice
SPIEGEL: So why should we even speak of pandemics at all?
Jefferson: That's something you should ask the World Health Organization!
SPIEGEL: In your opinion, what do you think it takes to make a virus like the swine flu a global threat?Jefferson: Unfortunately, we can only say that we don't know. I suspect that the whole issue is much more complex than we are even able to imagine it today. Given all the viruses that produce flu-like symptoms, perhaps Robert Koch's postulate that one particular pathogen causes one particular disease doesn't go far enough. Why, for example, do we not get influenza in the summertime? In the end, the pathogen is there all year long! Already in the 19th century, the German chemist and hygienist Max von Pettenkofer had developed a theory about how the pathogen's contact with the environment can alter the disease. I think that research in this direction would be worthwhile. Perhaps it would allow us to understand the pandemic of 1918/1919 better or to be able to assess the dangers of swine flu.
SPIEGEL: Humans have better defenses today than they did in 1918, and it probably won't be long before we have a swine flu vaccine. Last week, Germany's federal government announced that it wanted to buy enough for 30 percent of the population. How much do you think that will protect us?
Jefferson: When it comes to pandemic vaccination, as we say in English, the proof is in the pudding. The proof is in using it. We'll see. It does generate an antibody response, but will it really guard against the disease?
SPIEGEL: Are you pessimistic about that?
Jefferson: No, I'm just saying I think we're about to find out (laughter). Let's have this conversation again in about a year's time, shall we?
SPIEGEL: For a number of years, as part of the Cochrane Collaboration (http://www.cochrane.org/), you have been systematically evaluating all the studies on immunization against seasonal influenza. How good does it work?
Jefferson: Not particularly good. An influenza vaccine is not working for the majority of influenza-like illnesses because it is only designed to combat influenza viruses. For that reason, the vaccine changes nothing when it comes to the heightened mortality rate during the winter months. And, even in the best of cases, the vaccine only works against influenza viruses to a limited degree. Among other things, there is always the danger that the flu virus in circulation will have changed by the time that the vaccine product is finished with the result that, in the worst case, the vaccine will be totally ineffectual. In the best of cases, the few decent studies that exist show that the vaccine mainly works with healthy young adults. With children and the elderly, it only helps a little, if at all.
SPIEGEL: But aren't those the exact groups that influenza immunization is recommended for?
Jefferson: Indeed. That's one of the contradictions between scientific findings and practice, between evidence and policy.
SPIEGEL: So, what's behind this contradiction?
Jefferson: Of course, that has something to do with the influence of the pharmaceutical industry. But it also has to do with the fact that the importance of influenza is completely overestimated. It has to do with research funds, power, influence and scientific reputations!
SPIEGEL: So, at the moment is it reasonable to keep vaccinating against seasonal influenza?
Jefferson: I can't see any reason for it, but I'm not a decision maker.
SPIEGEL: And what about Tamiflu and Relenza, two of the anti-flu medications that are being deployed against swine flu? How well do they really work?
Jefferson : If taken at the right time, on average, Tamiflu reduces the duration of a real influenza by one day. One study also found that it diminishes the risk of pneumonia.
SPIEGEL: Could these medications lower mortality rates associated with the flu?
Jefferson : That's possible, but it has yet to be scientifically proven.
SPIEGEL: And what about side effects?
Jefferson: Tamiflu can cause nausea. And there are things that point toward psychiatric side effects. There are reports coming out of Japan that young people who have taken Tamiflu have had acute psychotic reactions similar to those found in schizophrenics.
SPIEGEL: So, is it sensible to use such medications at all?
Jefferson : When it comes to severe disease, yes. But under no circumstances should Tamiflu be handed out to whole schools, as is currently sometimes being done. With that being the case, it doesn't surprise me at all that we're already hearing reports about resistant strains of swine flu.
SPIEGEL: In Germany, the government is supposed to stockpile flu medications for 20 percent of the population. Do you see that as being sensible?
Jefferson: Well, at least there are much cheaper ways to accomplish a lot more. For example, school children should be taught to wash their hands regularly -- preferrably after every class! And every airport should install a couple hundred wash basins. Whoever gets off a plane and doesn't wash their hands should be stopped by the border police. You could tell for example by putting an invisible, neutral dye in the water. And wearing masks can be sensible, as well.
SPIEGEL: Has it really been shown that these measures work?Jefferson : There are several good studies on this that were done during the SARS epidemic. They are so-called case-control studies that examined individuals that had had close contact with the SARS virus. They compared the characteristics of those who had been infected with the virus through this contact with those of people who had not been infected. These studies resulted in very clear results.
SPIEGEL: You sound pretty impressed.
Jefferson: I am. What's great about these measures is not only that they are inexpensive, but also that they can help against more than just influenza viruses. This method can fight against the 200 pathogens that bring about flu symptoms as well as against gastrointestinal viruses and completely unknown germs. One study done in Pakistan has shown that hand washing can even save children's lives. Someone should get a Nobel Prize for that!
SPIEGEL: Mr. Jefferson, we thank you for this interview.
Interview conducted by Johann Grolle and Veronika Hackenbroch.