My Thoughts on 72 hour kits

[mgriffith]

As part of my meager attempt to pass on some of the knowledge I have accumulated over the years, I'd like to present my thought on various subjects. I thought about one big post, but then thought it would be better to break it up into different threads.

This one is the first, on 72 hour kits.

Over the years, my lovely wife and I have talked about 72 hour kits, observed what others have done, and I have put together many different types of kits. A 72 hour kit is supposed to be the ESSENTIALS you will need to live someplace else for three days. The kits we have seen other people build are many times far too much, as they have difficulty determining what is essential and what is desired.

Look at some scenarios. First, there is some sort of natural disaster and you must leave home for three days, such as a hurricane, tornado damage, flood, etc. Where you go really determines what you'll need. If you think you're going to spend three days in a motel 200 miles away, and then be able to drive back home, you'll really need only your toothbrush and a change of socks and underwear.

If you think you're have to go into a shelter....well....don't ever do that if you can avoid it.

The real need for a 72 hour kit is something you can grab and go, at a moments notice, and you have no idea where you will end up. If it's at a motel, great! You over packed. It may be under a bridge, or at a picnic shelter in a state or local park, or you may be camping in the local woods for a couple days. The thing to remember is you need to bring with you what you need to SURVIVE, not live comfortably.

Let's be honest. In three days you won't starve to death, and unless you are in a desert climate and exposed to the sun, you won't die of dehydration. So food and water (to some degree) are not as essential as you might think. Sure, a bunch of snacks and cans of beef stew would be nice, but not necessary.

One think that WILL kill you, and within minutes if you are not prepared, is the weather. Exposure is one of the top causes of death to people caught outside, if not the leading cause of death. If you have to leave your home and after hours of walking in the rain, you are stuck standing under the awning of a closed gas station, soaking wet and the wind is growing and the temperature dropping, you are in trouble.

So proper clothing is the number one item that should be in your 72 hour kit. Remember, all you are supposed to do is go away to some unknown location for three days and then return.

Water is essential for our bodies, but you don't need to carry two six packs of bottled water. First, it's heavy. Second, in three days, even in a desert climate, 1 liter of water per day is sufficient to maintain your health. You will be thirsty, but you will not suffer any more than that, so a bottle for each person in your party is all you'll need. If you want to carry more, and don't mind the load, go ahead and do it. But always try to keep one or two liters of bottled water in your kit so it is there when you need it. You may not have the time to fill up a canteen before you have to get out.

Socks and shoes are very important. You may have to do a lot of walking, and I hope your everyday choice for shoes will work for lengthy trips as you may not get a chance to change them. You might want to put a good pair of walking or hiking shoes in your kit so you can change into them and ditch your other shoes when you get the first chance. Think functionality, not fashion. You should have a couple pair of good hiking socks in your kit.

Hats, gloves, rain gear.....all these may be very important, depending upon the weather. You may want to pack some light jackets or sweaters only. If you need to leave in the summer, they will be nice on cool nights. If in the winter, you will probably already have a coat on when you leave. Hopefully you buy good quality functional coats, and not fashionable lightweights that look great on you, bring out your eyes and everything, but won't keep you warm in an oven. Rain gear is essential, nothing too fancy, military style ponchos will do, but have something to keep you at least partially dry.

Food. This is the toughest area to tackle. Our 72 hour kits consist of two small back packs and a food bag. The back packs have the clothing items I mentioned, along with a blanket, a tarp, rain gear, and some toiletries. The food bag is a canvas shoulder bag about the size of a large woman's shoulder bag, and it contains:

4 - 7 oz. packs of chunk tuna (they expire in 3 years)
8 - packs of crackers and cookies (6 crackers in a pack)
4 - servings of instant grits (3 packs to a serving)
3 - servings of instant oatmeal (3 packs to a serving)
1 - cup of instant rice
3 - packs of instant soup mix
6 - packs of instant hot chocolate
6 - 1.5 oz boxes of raisins
3 - packs of Cool-Aid drink
2 - jars of bullion cubes (beef and chicken)
Plastic forks and knives
Toothbrush and toothpaste
Wet Ones anti-bacterial wipes
Salt and pepper in packets
Sugar and alternate sweeteners in packets
Small metal stove, metal cup, and fuel packets for making hot water.

Total weight of this bag: 11 pounds

As you can see, we have enough food for several days, hot chocolate, snacks, etc. in one bag. We use up the stuff when it gets a couple years old, and replace it.

This is more than we would need for ourselves (two people), but we are planning on at least some of our children and maybe grandchildren coming with us. If not, then we have some to share with others.

This is what our 72 hour kits look like. I'll explain more about a bug out kit in another post. I hope this has been useful to someone.

Mark

[DMGNUT]

Mgriffith,
I feel like I'm picking on you and I don't mean to, but I have some questions and comments.
Where is this "unknown location" that you're going away to for a few days? Is it a FEMA Camp, hotel, out in the woods...? Are you so sure you'll get to return home in just 3 days?
I realize you can't carry the kitchen sink, but remember the scouting motto... be prepared!
Although you talk about water in your post, you don't include it in your 11lb. list of items... Who's providing it for you? Who's providing the matches to light your fuel packs, or maybe the weapons to protect you?
Although your list is a great start, it's lacking some very important items, and the 11lb. weight isn't realistic, as it doesn't seem to include some of the other items you mentioned in your post as being so important too; clothing for adverse weather, extra socks, a poncho, etc.
In my mind, most important of all, are the weapons. Gang bangers, looters, etc, will be just as real of a threat to your life, as the bad weather you mentioned.
You should also consider splitting up your food bag. Who's gona have it if you get separated from each other?

Below is by no means an "end all, be all" list. But mull it over and see what you think. Even with its redundancy in some areas, it weighs out at 38lbs, and that includes everything (weapons and ammo too). The writing before and after the list are part of the list, as offered, as it's used as a handout at emergency preparedness fairs.


These bags are not meant for luxury, but rather basic survival and protection. However, you may add whatever you find to be necessary, depending on your circumstances. Remember though, adhering to the basics is very important, so as to keep the weight down, enabling you to carry it for extended distances, if this becomes necessary. Contrary to many of the examples of ?bug-out-bags? you might have seen, using 5 gallon buckets, suit cases, etc. are poor choices. Your bag should be a day pack or some style of medium or slightly larger back pack, so as to carry the weight with your legs, to keep your hands free for other purposes (defense, carrying infants, etc.). With the exception of a few items, it is important to note that all the bug-out-bags in your family (and your group, if working in conjunction with others) should include as near to the same basic items as possible, so everyone has what they need, independent of each other, in case the group or individuals become separated.

Small Backpack (with or without water bladder)
Katadyn Water Filter Bottle (.5 liter) (1)
Water Bottles (.5 liter) (5)
MREs (3 main courses, 3 side dishes, 3 desserts, 3 snacks)
Survival Bars (6)
Spoon (1)
P-38 or P-51 (just in case)
First Aid Kit (quite a bit more than band-aids and moleskin)
Blow-Out Kit (for trauma wounds)
Tinder Kit (Blast match, lighter, 80 water proof matches, 4 candles, vaseline/cotton balls)
LED Camp Flashlight (1, w/spare batteries)
LED Mini Flashlight (1, w/spare battery)
Binoculars (1 pair, small backpack size)
Compass (1)
Maps (city and state)
Signal Mirror (1, the nice glass one, not plastic)
Howler Whistle (1, this is the loudest whistle currently made)
Emergency Survival Type Compressed Sleeping Bag (1)
Poncho (1, military style)
Plastic Bags (2 large trash bags and 4 gallon size zip lock bags)
Belt Knifes (2)
Pocket Knife (1)
Multi Purpose Tool (1)
Leather Gloves (1 pair)
Para Cord (20 yards)
Duct Tape (4 yards, approx)
Clothing and Hat (1 complete set)
Sun Screen (1 tube)
Dog Food (2 portions, dry)
AR-15 w/ACOG or EOTech & 3 point Sling (6 each, 30 rnd mags, 2 in double mag pouch on belt)
Glock 19 w/Tritium Sights & Holster (8 each, 15 rnd mags, 2 in double mag pouch on belt)
Weapon Style Flashlight (1, w/spare batteries)
Wet Wipes (1, small travel sized pouch)
Toilet Paper (enough)
Cash (enough)
Last Minute List (prescription meds, baby formula, important documents, etc)
Feminine Products (enough for 1 cycle, in wife's bag only)

With the exception of the last item, all of my family?s bags are the same. Obviously, you may not need dog food, but if you have a pet (that is capable), it should be brought along (with a leash), and it?s needs provided for as well. There is a little less water in these packs than I'd like (in an attempt to keep the weight down), but the filtration water bottles can filter up to 26 gallons each, so we can add to our water supply as we find and/or need more. Depending upon the time of year, you might be wearing or add to your pack, a jacket or other clothing.


PS... Those who like this list, must sell whatever inferior pistol you currently own, and buy a Glock... :l0 (22):

[BackBlast]

If we review real disasters, like say, Katrina, we will see that "3 days" is a very optimistic numbers. And that, in theory, is until the government can show up to take care of your needs.

A few things to consider. Government help has show itself to be a double edged sword. They typically take away your weapons, and may even take other items. Safety is not guaranteed, nor is survival. The arrival of government aid can take a LONG time, I think many were wanting for 2 weeks or more. "72 hours" is a FEMA myth.

You correctly state that shelter is potentially the most important feature. Food can be neglected the easiest, water probably should not be neglected. However, if you neglect food for very long you will find that your ability to perform labor will be curtailed very quickly. An ability you may NEED in the duration of an emergency.

Some other quick points..

Keeping your mind sharp, wits about you, and hope in your heart may be as important as the more mundane physical needs.

Light in darkness is comforting.

Comfort foods bring relief while stressed.

[LoudmouthMormon]

Hi mgriffith,

I've found that hearing experiences does more for me than hearing theory. Can you share a story or two where you've used your 72 hour kit?

LM

[prairiemom]

Around here, about the only time a 72-hr kit would be needed would be in a storm or flood when it wasn't safe to stay at home. In the Big Storm of April '97, the local school became a temporary shelter and it took about 3 days before people could go home. Of course, that was pre-Katrina, it was a community response, not a FEMA response. Some people had kits that they took with them, Salvation Army/Red Cross provided whatever else people lacked.

I think when most people are thinking of their 72-hr kit they are thinking EOTWAWKI--a meteor, massive EMP, caldera eruption or massive weapons strike. But really, unless my home isn't safe, that's where I'm staying in the event of a huge region- or nation-wide disaster.

Now winter kits for the car, that's a different story. I posted elsewhere that we've used our winter kits at least 2-3 times and were very grateful to have them on hand.

[ghostcat]

PS... Those who like this list, must sell whatever inferior pistol you currently own, and buy a Glock... :l0 (22):You forgot to include the kool-aide that you need to attempt to make the Glock palatable!!!!:ciappa:

[DMGNUT]

Maybe one of the water bottles in my kit was actually kool-aid...:coool:

[BackBlast]

I don't create a 72 hour kit, I create a "get home" kit. If something happened and I couldn't drive home, I would hike home.

Also "car kits", which are similar.

I don't have a "72 hour kit" meaning I would just flee my house on foot. With two little boys, we would not get very far very fast. Packing supplies on foot? More likely than not we would seek to hunker down at home or in our yard. Only emergency I can see that would force us to leave is a flood, and hopefully there would be sufficient warning to drive from that.

[Noahs ARK]

While I do have a few things in my car, I don't have a 72-hour kit.

We used to have 2 vehicles - a van and a pathfinder. Our plan was to load the animals into the 2 vehicles and get out of dodge, if necessary.

Now that my husband can't drive, we sold the van. 19 animals won't fit in the pathfinder, so we'll be hunkering down here at home.

Freaks me out a bit, but I can't dwell on it.:001_07:

[mirkwood]

I've posted this before, but I will add it here again.


Here is my complete philosophy on car kits (this is taken from my presentation on food storage & emergency preparedness).

Car Kits
A far more useful item for us in our area is what I call a Car Kit or Get Home Kit that stays in your car. The idea behind a car kit is having supplies that will help you get home in the event a disaster occurs while you are away from home. If you are at work or are out shopping when an earthquake or some other major disaster strikes it would be better to have a kit in your car that helps you get home. In the event of a major earthquake this county is going to be wrecked. An earthquake of disastrous magnitude will destroy the road system making it impossible to drive. If somehow the roads are still open, they will be so packed with traffic as to make vehicular traffic improbable. You would be better off by planning on walking home from wherever you are. I plan for a two day walk home. I believe a healthy adult, even in the event of a disaster, can walk anywhere in the county in two days or less. If you have small kids, you can plan on that taking even longer and should plan your kit(s) with that in mind.
The kinds of food items you want in your kit are things that can take extreme temperatures for an extended length of time without degrading their nutritional value. I have used MRE’s (http://beprepared.com/category.asp_Q_c_E_100 (http://beprepared.com/category.asp_Q_c_E_100)) in the past, but over the course of a summer in the trunk they are cooking and cooling every single day. This quickly degrades the taste, texture and nutritional value of the food. The Coast Guard uses the Mainstay Calorie Bar (http://beprepared.com/search.asp?t=ss&ss=mainstay (http://beprepared.com/search.asp?t=ss&ss=mainstay)) as their emergency food storage on their ships. The biggest benefit to this item is the five year shelf life at any temperature between -40 deg F to 300 deg F. They are also non thirst promoting. They come in three sizes, but I recommend the 3600 calorie bar. They can be purchased at Emergency Essentials for $6.95. One of these would give you two days at 1800 calories. Personally I have two in my kit plus a few Power Bars (http://www.powerbar.com (http://www.powerbar.com/)). I make sure that I rotate the Power Bars regularly to maintain their nutritional value because I store my kit in the trunk of my car. Roughly every six months I have new ones in my kit. I also keep four 1 pint water bottles.
I also suggest keeping a pair of durable pants, a t-shirt, a pair of shoes you are comfortable walking long distances in, a spare set of shoelaces, two pair of socks and a good fixed blade knife. I generally do not worry about winter gear because I will already have winter items with me if it is wintertime. If you do not normally have winter gloves and hat, I would suggest adding a pair of wool liner gloves which can be purchased at any grocery store for a couple dollars and a wool watch cap, which can be purchased at any department type store for around five dollars. These can be added into the kit and take little space. You could also add a woolen blanket to your kit. I like the fixed blade knife because it is a versatile tool which may come in handy. The knife needs to include a sheath to prevent accidental cuts.
I would also keep a small amount of cash inside the kit as well. A small zip lock baggie with $10-20 in one dollar bills would be a good idea. You could also use the mini M&M tubes to hold quarters. Each tube will hold about $14 in quarters. These are simple to store in the kit and provide some emergency cash. They are also water proof and have a lid that you can recluse if you use some of the quarters. If you use paper rolls they may become damaged by water or by the shifting movement of your pack. The plastic rolls will not be a problem with water, but once you start cutting them they are not as stable a container. For paper money small bills are a must so that you do not have to pay for a one dollar item with a twenty and not get any change back. Remember, if you are forced to use your car kit, there probably is not any power and your debit cards, credit cards and ATM card will not be working. It is also unlikely that a check would be accepted.
All these items should be stored in some kind of backpack. This keeps your hands free for any other activities you may have to perform. A school backpack is a poor choice but if that is your only option it is better then nothing. There are a great many options available that are highly durable. There are companies that manufacture packs for the military that are highly durable and have been tested in the field with good results. My preferred backpack is made by 511 Tactical. They make two sizes and I use the Rush 24 for my car kit (http://www.511tactical.com/browse/Home/Law-Enforcement/Accessories/Bags-Backpacks/RUSH-24-Backpack/D/30100/P/1:100:10000:10900:10905/I/58601 (http://www.511tactical.com/browse/Home/Law-Enforcement/Accessories/Bags-Backpacks/RUSH-24-Backpack/D/30100/P/1:100:10000:10900:10905/I/58601)). There is a larger pack, the Rush 72 (http://www.511tactical.com/browse/Home/Law-Enforcement/Accessories/Bags-Backpacks/RUSH-72-Backpack/D/30100/P/1:100:10000:10900:10905/I/58602 (http://www.511tactical.com/browse/Home/Law-Enforcement/Accessories/Bags-Backpacks/RUSH-72-Backpack/D/30100/P/1:100:10000:10900:10905/I/58602)). The other companies that I like are Blackhawk (http://www.blackhawk.com/category1.asp?D=D0064&S=&C=&N=1&pricestart=&pricee nd= (http://www.blackhawk.com/category1.asp?D=D0064&S=&C=&N=1&pricestart=&priceend=)), Tactical Assault Gear (http://tacticalassaultgearstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=10 (http://tacticalassaultgearstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=10)), and Camelback (http://www.camelbak.com/index.cfm (http://www.camelbak.com/index.cfm)). All three companies have quality products with good reputations. There are many other options out there, these just happen to be my personal preferences. There are also companies that manufacture packs for hiking and camping, again with good reputations. These are highly durable packs and will withstand the wear and tear of riding in the trunk of your vehicle. This may not sound like a big deal, but a school type backpack will be worn after a year or so of riding around in the trunk. This can result in dumping out the contents of your kit when you go to put it on. If you buy a $10 backpack that is what you will get. It is better to pay a little more for an item that will hold up in the event you need it. There are also a few less expensive options in packs that will serve you well, but lack some of the extra features in the more expensive packs. My choice of less expensive packs are the German Mountain Rucksack (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0026022516442a&type=product&cmCat=sear ch&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&QueryText=german&N=4887&Ntk=Products& Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=german&noImage=0 (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0026022516442a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&QueryText=german&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=german&noImage=0)) and the US Army ALICE Pack (http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/tame.exe/agcatalog/level4s.tam?xax=1534&M5COPY%2Ectx=7056&M5%2Ectx=30 08&M2%5FDESC%2Ectx=Field%20Packs%20%2D%20Army%20AL ICE%2C%20Tactical%2C%20LBE%20%2D%20Load%20Bearing% 20Gear%2C%20Accessories&level3%2Ectx=results%2Etam &query%2Ectx=alice%20pack&backto=%2Fagcatalog%2Fre sults%2Etam (http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/tame.exe/agcatalog/level4s.tam?xax=1534&M5COPY%2Ectx=7056&M5%2Ectx=3008&M2%5FDESC%2Ectx=Field%20Packs%20%2D%20Army%20ALICE %2C%20Tactical%2C%20LBE%20%2D%20Load%20Bearing%20G ear%2C%20Accessories&level3%2Ectx=results%2Etam&query%2Ectx=alice%20pack&backto=%2Fagcatalog%2Fresults%2Etam)).
After you build your kit you need to try it on and walk around with if for a little while. This will give you an idea on the weight and balance of the pack. You need to make sure your pack will work for you. If it is too heavy you will need to make some adjustments so that you can actually carry your supplies.
Let me also add these final thoughts on 72 hour kits. I am not opposed to the idea of 72 hour kits I just feel for our neighborhood a Car Kit is a better idea. Personally I also have 72 hour kits in my home and I believe there are areas that a 72 hour kit in addition to a Car Kit is a good idea. You can find some good information on 72 hour kits on my website (http://www.rogmo.com/72_hr_kits.html (http://www.rogmo.com/72_hr_kits.html)), including how I built my personal kits (http://www.rogmo.com/100.html (http://www.rogmo.com/100.html)). Personally I prefer to build my own kits, but some people would rather go out and buy one. I have seen two sites where I thought the pre-made kits were any good. They can be found at Totally Ready (http://www.totallyready.com (http://www.totallyready.com/)) and Emergency Essentials (http://beprepared.com/category.asp_Q_c_E_120_A_name_E_EmergencyKits (http://beprepared.com/category.asp_Q_c_E_120_A_name_E_EmergencyKits)). I like what I see of the contents a bit better at Totally Ready though I would still add the Mainstay Calorie Bar. The only thing I am unsure with both companies is the backpack because it does not list who makes them. If I had to pick between the two I would go with Totally Ready and add a Mainstay Calorie Bar or two.



Pictures of my pack can be found at this thread: http://www.ldsglo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6346

[mgriffith]

Where is this "unknown location" that you're going away to for a few days? Is it a FEMA Camp, hotel, out in the woods...? Are you so sure you'll get to return home in just 3 days?


I don't know....it's unknown! :l0 (17): And, as I said, the purpose of the 72 hour kit, from what the church teaches, is to go "somewhere" for 3 days and then return. I think you may be referring to a bug out bag, which I have posted a different thread about. I'm not going to any FEMA camps.



Although you talk about water in your post, you don't include it in your 11lb. list of items... Who's providing it for you? Who's providing the matches to light your fuel packs, or maybe the weapons to protect you?


I thought I mentioned to have a liter or two of water for each kit. In fact, I did after looking at the post again. Matches are included in the food bag. I guess I forgot them mention them, but I always have matches and lighters.



Although your list is a great start, it's lacking some very important items, and the 11lb. weight isn't realistic, as it doesn't seem to include some of the other items you mentioned in your post as being so important too; clothing for adverse weather, extra socks, a poncho, etc.


The 11 pounds is just the food bag. My point was to show how much food you can carry in a small fairly light bag. I also did mention rain gear, socks, etc. I have to ask if you read the whole thing, or just the list of items in the food bag?
[/quote]



In my mind, most important of all, are the weapons.


I didn't mention weapons because I was just talking about the 72 hour kit. I was intending on posting another thread with my thoughts on weapons, which I do have and know how to use.



Who's gona have it (the food bag) if you get separated from each other?


There is no power on Earth that is going to separate me and my sweetie. Period.



PS... Those who like this list, must sell whatever inferior pistol you currently own, and buy a Glock... :l0 (22):

To each his own. I like revolvers (another thread)

The 72 hour kit is the smallest kit with the shortest and least comprehensive list of items because it is designed for an immediate grab and go and sustain yourself for three days. Like I said, sustaining is just being able to get out of the weather, keeping warm, and having something to eat and drink. We're not talking long term survival in a 72 hour kit. Remember the name.

Again, this thread, and the other one I posted on bug out bags and kits are an attempt to illustrate my thinking on these subjects. I am splitting them up because I have a lot to say, and didn't want it all in one gigantic post. I will be posting more of my thoughts, which are just to try and give something to anyone that would like to read them and perhaps learn something from my experiences. If you disagree with my, that's fine. You can tell me so and I won't be offended (I guess it depends on how to tell me so). I don't mind a discussion, because that is what these forums are all about, no?

Mark

[mgriffith]

I don't create a 72 hour kit, I create a "get home" kit. If something happened and I couldn't drive home, I would hike home.

Also "car kits", which are similar.

I don't have a "72 hour kit" meaning I would just flee my house on foot. With two little boys, we would not get very far very fast. Packing supplies on foot? More likely than not we would seek to hunker down at home or in our yard. Only emergency I can see that would force us to leave is a flood, and hopefully there would be sufficient warning to drive from that.

I used to have a "get home" kit in my truck when I drove to work each day into the city. It was designed to sustain me for the three days I figured it would take me to walk home (about 35 miles) and kept in my truck. It as sort of the reverse of our 72 hour kits. I would recommend this to anyone that works away from home.

Now I work mostly from home, so I don't need it anymore.

Mark

[mgriffith]

Hi mgriffith,

I've found that hearing experiences does more for me than hearing theory. Can you share a story or two where you've used your 72 hour kit?

LM

I was on the Mississippi Gulf Coast when Hurricane Frederick hit in 1979. I think officially it was a category 3 or 4. I was in the USAF at the time and had to stay, but my wife and daughter, and neighborhood friends decided to leave for a couple days. I didn't have a 72 hour kit at the time because I had never heard of it then, but I did have an emergency kit I stored in the car which my wife took with her. She used up the food and of course wore the clothing. Her evacuation was in a hurry and it was comforting to know she had everything with her she and my daughter (5 at the time) needed. She could have gone into the shelter with me, but she choose to evacuate with the neighbors.

They had to travel about 100 miles inland to find a motel and even then the power went out and they only had the snacks in the kit to eat for a couple days. Then they drove back home, and we lived in our house which was undamaged, but without power for the next two weeks.

I've also done clean up work after hurricanes and you have to be self-sustaining. There is no organized food, or housing and your 72 hour kits are great for that. The Church calls for volunteers, and make sure they understand that they are on their own. They camp normally at a Stake center, but there is no organized help as most people in the disaster areas are worse off than you. So you stay and help as long as you can or until your supplies run out.

I have also tested my theories on what should go into a 72 hour kit by camping in various situations and using items in the kit, so I know, for example, that I can cook the food listed on my little stove and fuel tabs and it works fine. I also know from some of my military experiences what works and what doesn't.

In my experience, when a disaster strikes an area and it's not safe to stay in your home, you have to go someplace else for awhile, that someplace is usually some sort of temporary shelter quickly setup on the local level (town/city, county, or perhaps state). It may just be a school gym and you get a spot on the floor along with a bunch of other people. In most cases I have seen, after a couple or three days, you can leave and go back home. Now you may no longer have a home, in which case you may need to go back into a more organized shelter, like a FEMA one, which would have been started by then. I would never go into a shelter like that, and would rather stay at my home, even if it was destroyed, because I could make some type of shelter work there, and my food storage would be there as well.

I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any other questions or I need to explain further.

Mark

[arbilad]

the purpose of the 72 hour kit, from what the church teaches,

Does the church actually teach 72 hour kits? I mean, other than local people who teach it on their own.
I mean, I have no problem with 72 hour kits (although I personally have a car kit), but I think that the danger is that people will hyper concentrate on the concept of 72 hour kits and ignore what is actually a commandment, that is, food storage. They get their 72 hour kit and think that they've followed most of the commandment to be prepared, and so are lax about starting actual food storage.
I know that 72 hour kits are very appropriate for some people. Heck, it's a great idea to have a charged and checked fire extinguisher in your kitchen too. But I have yet to see anything from a GA telling us that the Lord commands us to have a 72 hour kit.

[Baconator]

I don't have different kits. I have one RAID pack with stuff in it to allow me to go full hobo for 4-5 days if required. I go through and outfit it depending on the season (more water in summer, more heaters in winter, etc).
I just consider it one of those 'needful things'.

[mgriffith]

Does the church actually teach 72 hour kits? I mean, other than local people who teach it on their own.


I believe the Church used to teach 72 hour kits, but it looks like that has been replaced with the 3 months food supply.

Mark

[mirkwood]

Nope. FEMA teaches 72 hour kits, the church has always taught food storage.

[Harm]

My family and I designed a "go bag" essentially what we would grab if we have to evacuate. With a family of 5 if we're not driving, with 3 small kids, we're not going very far.

IMHO transpo is almost more important than everything else except shelter, water and defense.

A plan is the most important. My plan is to bug in.

[Harm]

Oh and Greg, cmon man still with the Glock Kool-Aid? :d0 (21):

[mirkwood]

A plan is the most important. My plan is to bug in.


As is mine and by the time I'm done with the Stake (if I get my way), theirs too!

[Baconator]

Oh and Greg, cmon man still with the Glock Kool-Aid? :d0 (21):

Hey, it's refreshing and delicious.

[mirkwood]

And arsenic free. :thumbsup:

[mgriffith]

A plan is the most important. My plan is to bug in.

I agree. You are far safer in your own home than you are just about any place else. However, there are two scenarios that concern me:

1. The old "roving" gangs thing
2. And the "new government" problem when some strong man decides to organize the locals under his unique set of laws.

I have the lovely wife to protect. If I'm lucky, my Army trained son and his family and my other son (whom I trained to hunt) are with us in my home. Let's just say I have sufficient for my needs in the way of guns and ammunition.

The problem with defending a house is unless that gang is stupid, they will eventually get you. It doesn't take too much to smoke you out or otherwise force you to evacuate where you can be easily picked off or captured, unless your house is built on a cave or you have dug some tunnels to escape. Either way, they get your stuff. Even with three of us, we can't mount an effective guard operation to cover the entire property and then fend off attacks.

The "new government" problem is even more threatening because they can really just do what they want, with the force of their own "police" to back them up. Unless you are part of their group, you are an enemy.

So an alternate plan is necessary, and that is buggin' out. Again, we would only do this if staying becomes more dangerous than leaving, which is very dangerous in itself. I don't like this scenario, and I have some plans to try and make it less likely to happen, but anyone that has been in the military knows how Murphy operates. One of the best Murphy's Laws I heard is "The battle plan never survives first contact with the enemy" (or something like that).

So, while I agree that "buggin' in" is a better plan, if that is your only plan, you may be very very disappointed, and that can be deadly for you and the family. I don't want to be specific, but I know from my past that if you cause someone to pay a price for extracting from you what they want, they will make sure you pay them back, and usually that means watching while your family suffers greatly. And "suffers" won't even begin to describe it.

Mark

[Noahs ARK]

Did you see my new thread? BurglarGARD for your windows.

Since buggin' out isn't an option for us, I do worry about my windows being vulnerable. I'm considering getting the BurglarGARD to ease my mind a little bit.

[mgriffith]

Did you see my new thread? BurglarGARD for your windows.

Since buggin' out isn't an option for us, I do worry about my windows being vulnerable. I'm considering getting the BurglarGARD to ease my mind a little bit.


Are they bulletproof? If not, I don't see how they can give you peace of mind. You might want to get some 3/4 inch plywood and screw it to the window frames using security screws instead. That still isn't bulletproof, but they won't be able to see inside and target you or some family member.

I take it you or someone in the family is physically unable to bug out? You're in a tough position.

Mark

[Noahs ARK]

Are they bulletproof? If not, I don't see how they can give you peace of mind. You might want to get some 3/4 inch plywood and screw it to the window frames using security screws instead. That still isn't bulletproof, but they won't be able to see inside and target you or some family member.

I take it you or someone in the family is physically unable to bug out? You're in a tough position.

Mark

No...they're not bulletproof. :willy_nilly:

My husband is a quad, we have 19 animals and 1 vehicle. Buggin' out isn't an option.

[arbilad]

I've heard the roving gangs explanation for bugging out, but I don't totally buy it. Sure, a house is a big and obvious target. But if the gang is halfway competent, they also know the "wilderness" (for lack of a better term) around your area and where people can hide. After all, they've probably been doing it themselves, since they don't think that staying in your house is any more safe for them than it was for you.
Also, in a collapse scenario, a lot of people are going to be heading for the hills. The uncivilized area around your favorite metropolis is going to be full of people running away. People in a situation like that are more than happy to prey upon one another.
Also, to my way of thinking, bugging out is a permanent option. If you expect to go back to your house, expect to go back to some people living in your house off your food supply. If you are bugging out to some location, unless it is really, really remote (which also means nearly impossible to get to in a collapse scenario), you can expect to find someone there to greet you. Your bug out bag isn't going to last you more than a few days. After that you're living at the subsistence, hunter gatherer level.
Really, in a collapse scenario, there are no good choices other than trust in the Lord. But of all the unsavory choices out there, staying in place has always appealed to me the most.

[mirkwood]

Or you defeat the gang mentality through teaching your neighbors/ward/stake to be prepared and then you all can stand against the roving gangs together.

[sarge712]

Or you defeat the gang mentality through teaching your neighbors/ward/stake to be prepared and then you all can stand against the roving gangs together.

Exactly mirk.

Also, I plan to hold out and use another option which is that of roving patrols and pre-emptive raids to 1) make a clear no man's zone around my neighborhood and 2) to strike fear in to the gangs' hearts. Two can play at the predator game and when the gloves come off, they come off but good.

Even if its just my brother, brothers-in-law, dad and I, we plan to take the fight to the enemy before he shows up at our doorstep. I'm no rabbit to sit and wait to be dug out of my burrow. One of my mentors told me two things which have stuck with me all these years: 1) "They can't do anything to you that you can't do to them faster and better" and 2) "Be the bad guy's boogey-man, don't let him be yours"

[mgriffith]

I've heard the roving gangs explanation for bugging out, but I don't totally buy it. Sure, a house is a big and obvious target. But if the gang is halfway competent, they also know the "wilderness" (for lack of a better term) around your area and where people can hide.


I don't think that will be an issue in my area. Although there are some less desirable people that live in my small town, there are not too many, and our townspeople will most likely band together for protection. At least that is what I'm trying to promote.

However, in a city, or worse, in a suburb close to a major city, this is going to be a real problem.

But you have to remember, gangs are like most criminals, they go for the targets of least resistance and easiest opportunity. If they have a small town or suburb to terrorize and they can get everything they want there, they won't be frolicking through the woods on the off chance they will run across someone. Besides, my hide out places are pretty far off the beaten path. Not too far away, but far enough that it is not very likely that someone out for an evening stroll will run across me.

Even if that were to happen, it is much easier to escape when you are outside than in a confined area like a house, but still not a certainty.



Also, in a collapse scenario, a lot of people are going to be heading for the hills. The uncivilized area around your favorite metropolis is going to be full of people running away. People in a situation like that are more than happy to prey upon one another.


Yes, many people will be running for the hills, and they will have to be dealt with if I met up with them. Again, my chosen areas are not impossible to get to, but they are not on the normal routes. People from the local area would know them, but city folk would have no clue. The majority of those the do escape to the woods will be very poorly prepared and will drift back to the towns in short order where they will either meet their fate or get by somehow. All you need to be is a good 3 day walk from any large areas and you will probably be safe. People, especially hungry people, are not going to walk that far to look for food. If civilization has collapsed to the point where I have to bug out for safety, everyone else will be in dire straits as well.



Also, to my way of thinking, bugging out is a permanent option. If you expect to go back to your house, expect to go back to some people living in your house off your food supply. If you are bugging out to some location, unless it is really, really remote (which also means nearly impossible to get to in a collapse scenario), you can expect to find someone there to greet you.


You may be right.....I don't expect to be able to come back to a home that was untouched. My food storage area is pretty well hidden, but they could find it. If my house has been compromised, then I'll have to extract those people from there. Not something I would want to do, and I may not be able to do so, but I'd have to try.



Your bug out bag isn't going to last you more than a few days. After that you're living at the subsistence, hunter gatherer level.


This is also true, and not something I am looking forward to doing. This would be a very trying situation for myself and the wife.



Really, in a collapse scenario, there are no good choices other than trust in the Lord. But of all the unsavory choices out there, staying in place has always appealed to me the most.

Oh yes, I would be praying daily....hourly if need be, for the Lord's help and trust that He will give it to me when I really need it the most. He has come through for me in the past when I needed His help, and I trust He will do it again.

Please understand.....I am not wishing for, nor expecting this type of scenario, but I am planning for it. I fully understand anyone that wants to stay in place, and I will be doing that as well. As I said, this plan is ONLY if it becomes too dangerous to stay.

So say that happens.....it becomes so dangerous in your neighborhood that you fear you will soon be killed or worse. The roving gangs you hoped would not come are there, and you watch from your closed up home as they systematically go through each house in your neighborhood. You can hear the gunfire and the screams. You watch as they drag the 16 year old girl from the house across the street and........well, you get the picture.

Or, worse, the new local government, organized by the commander of the local "freedom fighters", has issued a decree that all homes will be inspected for contraband. All guns will be confiscated, and all hoarders of food will be severely dealt with. Your home is to be inspected in a couple days.

What will you do now?

Mark

[mgriffith]

No...they're not bulletproof. :willy_nilly:

My husband is a quad, we have 19 animals and 1 vehicle. Buggin' out isn't an option.

You're best bet is to find someone that would be willing to share with your food storage in exchange for their protection. Of course, it would have to be someone you would trust with your life because that's exactly what it would be.

Wish I could help more.
Mark

[mirkwood]

Exactly mirk.

Also, I plan to hold out and use another option which is that of roving patrols and pre-emptive raids to 1) make a clear no man's zone around my neighborhood and 2) to strike fear in to the gangs' hearts. Two can play at the predator game and when the gloves come off, they come off but good.

Even if its just my brother, brothers-in-law, dad and I, we plan to take the fight to the enemy before he shows up at our doorstep. I'm no rabbit to sit and wait to be dug out of my burrow. One of my mentors told me two things which have stuck with me all these years: 1) "They can't do anything to you that you can't do to them faster and better" and 2) "Be the bad guy's boogey-man, don't let him be yours"

I once told the bishopric that I had a plan for dealing with the roving gang mentality that was a part of the ward emergency plan. I also told them I was not going to put it on paper. In my ward alone there are five police officers and numerous others with some form of tactical training/experience. :l0 (47):

[Noahs ARK]

Please understand.....I am not wishing for, nor expecting this type of scenario, but I am planning for it. I fully understand anyone that wants to stay in place, and I will be doing that as well. As I said, this plan is ONLY if it becomes too dangerous to stay.

So say that happens.....it becomes so dangerous in your neighborhood that you fear you will soon be killed or worse. The roving gangs you hoped would not come are there, and you watch from your closed up home as they systematically go through each house in your neighborhood. You can hear the gunfire and the screams. You watch as they drag the 16 year old girl from the house across the street and........well, you get the picture.

Or, worse, the new local government, organized by the commander of the local "freedom fighters", has issued a decree that all homes will be inspected for contraband. All guns will be confiscated, and all hoarders of food will be severely dealt with. Your home is to be inspected in a couple days.

What will you do now?

Mark

I'm more afraid of the new local government than I am of the gangs, although they scare the tar out of me, too! I'm hoping the 6 families that live on our dead-end street will band together to keep people from coming down this street.

We have the river behind all of us (with a steep ravine in some area) and open fields in front of us.

Shotguns galore!

[Noahs ARK]

You're best bet is to find someone that would be willing to share with your food storage in exchange for their protection. Of course, it would have to be someone you would trust with your life because that's exactly what it would be.

Wish I could help more.
Mark

That's what I'm counting on - protection in exchange for food & water.

I think if things get really tough, lots of good people will come together to help eachother.

[sarge712]

I think if things get really tough, lots of good people will come together to help eachother.

I believe that too. It will bring out the worst in some but many others will rise to the occasion. We hear lots of horror stories about Katrina and with good reason but there were also many, many accounts of folks going above and beyond for complete strangers.

[mgriffith]

I believe that too. It will bring out the worst in some but many others will rise to the occasion. We hear lots of horror stories about Katrina and with good reason but there were also many, many accounts of folks going above and beyond for complete strangers.

I agree, to a point. After Hurricane Frederick on the Mississippi Gulf Coast (1979) there were lots of acts of kindness. Some of the local stores and fast food joints were giving away all their meat and things that needed to be frozen because there was no power. We had several neighborhood BBQs with food provided by them until we ran out of charcoal. I didn't know how to make my own charcoal then. We also had a lot of neighbors helping others with the clean up.

But then there were those trying to cash in on the situation. People coming in from up north with semi-trailers loaded with ice, charging $10 for a shovel full, or the local gas station that was hand pumping gas out of their tanks and selling it for $5 a gallon (in 1979). Or the guys with generators on the back of their truck charging $50 to hook their generator to your freezer for 30 minutes. Looting was not a real problem in my area, but others suffered with that.

As time progressed and people got more stressed due to no power, less food, no clean water, they got less cooperative and starting complaining more. The locals who had been through Hurricane Camile in 1969 were more likely to help.

Just some perspective from my experiences.

Mark

[KF7EEC]

...I didn't know how to make my own charcoal then. ...

How do you make charcoal?

[mgriffith]

How do you make charcoal?

Here's a web page that is a good description of the process. I have tried this on a smaller scale and it works, but you need to play around with the size of the fire and when to smother it so you get the best yield.

http://www.eaglequest.com/~bbq/charcoal/index.html

[Noahs ARK]

Here's a web page that is a good description of the process. I have tried this on a smaller scale and it works, but you need to play around with the size of the fire and when to smother it so you get the best yield.

http://www.eaglequest.com/~bbq/charcoal/index.html

Wow - that sounds complicated. I think I'll take the lazy way and just buy it. :sosp:

[mgriffith]

You would have hated making charcoal in the "old days". This required cords and cords of wood stacked in a special manner to make a central chimney and then set on fire, but it needed to smolder for 4-5 days, not burn, so the men would camp next to the piles to monitor them. When a fire broke out, they would climb on the piles and jump on them to compact the wood so it would smolder again. A dangerous business, because if you fell through into the fire, well, you were gone.

In some of the old furnaces, they would load hundreds of pounds of charcoal and let it burn for days before it was hot enough to add the limestone and iron ore. Then the process of making the molten iron would take days more.

All in all, a very complex process.....and this fueled all the iron needs of this early country. Amazing.

Mark

[mgriffith]

Wow - that sounds complicated. I think I'll take the lazy way and just buy it. :sosp:

Oh, if you want to try charcoal made with this method, get some real wood charcoal and not that junk that Kingsford and other like it sell. That is mostly made up of saw dust and glue. Real wood charcoal burns hotter and faster so you will need to adjust your grilling or BBQ methods.

Mark

[Noahs ARK]

Oh, if you want to try charcoal made with this method, get some real wood charcoal and not that junk that Kingsford and other like it sell. That is mostly made up of saw dust and glue. Real wood charcoal burns hotter and faster so you will need to adjust your grilling or BBQ methods.

Mark

Where do we get real wood charcoal? We don't have to make it, do we? :001_07:

[mgriffith]

Where do we get real wood charcoal? We don't have to make it, do we? :001_07:

In my area, it is sold at Wal-Mart as Royal Oak charcoal. You may have to look around for some, maybe in a different store with a different name, but you should be able to find it. Just look on the package to make sure it says "real wood" charcoal, or something like that.

Mark

[Noahs ARK]

In my area, it is sold at Wal-Mart as Royal Oak charcoal. You may have to look around for some, maybe in a different store with a different name, but you should be able to find it. Just look on the package to make sure it says "real wood" charcoal, or something like that.

Mark

I think I've seen Royal Oak at our WalMart! Thank you - I'm soooo relieved I don't have to make it. :l0 (20):

[phylm]

MGriffith--thank you for that very useful post. I have charcoal-making directions from another site, but this one is so straightforward and clear that it is super. No reason why you couldn't cut the size down to a metal 5-gallon pail, or even a #10 can, if you wanted to. My prep class will be tickled with this info. Thanks. phylm

Incidentally, I was pleased to learn that 15 twenty pound bags of charcoal equals one hot meal a day for a year. (Probably read in this forum, but worth repeating.)

[signseeker]

Incidentally, I was pleased to learn that 15 twenty pound bags of charcoal equals one hot meal a day for a year. (Probably read in this forum, but worth repeating.)

I never heard that before. That is good to know!

[mirkwood]

With a volcano stove and 300 lbs. of charcoal you can cook for a year for a family of six.

[signseeker]

Is there an echo in here? :blink:

[Noahs ARK]

Incidentally, I was pleased to learn that 15 twenty pound bags of charcoal equals one hot meal a day for a year. (Probably read in this forum, but worth repeating.)

I hate to sound dense :blush2:, but does charcoal have a shelf-life? Cuz I'm adding 15 twenty pound bags of charcoal to my WalMart list.

[Toni]

I never thought of it having a shelf life. If anyone knows, I'd be interested in the answer, as well.

I've learned a lot in this thread. Thanks so much to the contributors.

[mirkwood]

Keep it dry is all I have ever heard.

[ghostcat]

I hate to sound dense :blush2:, but does charcoal have a shelf-life? Cuz I'm adding 15 twenty pound bags of charcoal to my WalMart list.
No, charcoal has no shelf life. Being almost pure carbon it will last indefinitely. Archeologists routinely dig up charcoal that is thousands of years old, if you were to apply flame to it, it would burn as readily as if it were made yesterday.

Charcoal "briquettes" because of their method of manufacture do need to be protected from water. Water has a detrimental effect on the "binder" (typically a starch made from grain) used in the production of the "briquettes" allowing them to break down into the smaller particles of charcoal that they are made from.(the briquette is made from sawdust and other small waste wood which has been turned into charcoal)

[mgriffith]

Charcoal "briquettes" because of their method of manufacture do need to be protected from water. Water has a detrimental effect on the "binder" (typically a starch made from grain) used in the production of the "briquettes" allowing them to break down into the smaller particles of charcoal that they are made from.(the briquette is made from sawdust and other small waste wood which has been turned into charcoal)

Trivial alert! Did you know it was Henry Ford that invented charcoal briquettes? He wanted to do something with all the scarp wood and sawdust remaining from car manufacturing, hence the name "KingsFORD".

[signseeker]

This griffith dude is handier'n a pocket! :w00t:

[Babbi-Dan]

Does the church actually teach 72 hour kits? I mean, other than local people who teach it on their own.
I mean, I have no problem with 72 hour kits (although I personally have a car kit), but I think that the danger is that people will hyper concentrate on the concept of 72 hour kits and ignore what is actually a commandment, that is, food storage. They get their 72 hour kit and think that they've followed most of the commandment to be prepared, and so are lax about starting actual food storage.
I know that 72 hour kits are very appropriate for some people. Heck, it's a great idea to have a charged and checked fire extinguisher in your kitchen too. But I have yet to see anything from a GA telling us that the Lord commands us to have a 72 hour kit.

If you go to lds.org and do a search for 72-hour kits you will find article in the Ensign about preparing them. For example:

"Help your family organize a 72-hour kit, including clothes, nonperishable food, a flashlight, medicine, water, a radio, blankets, and other essentials. Assemble a first-aid kit and learn how to use it properly." This is from an article in The New Era.

And Dallin H. Oaks says the following: "A 72-hour kit of temporal supplies may prove valuable for earthly challenges, but, as the foolish virgins learned to their sorrow, a 24-hour kit of spiritual preparation is of greater and more enduring value." This is from an article in the Liahona.

And also the following: New Era April 2006 Mutual Activity Idea ? As a group, plan and assemble 72-hour kits to use in case of a natural disaster or other emergency in your area. With the permission of your bishop and leaders, ask the emergency preparedness specialist in your ward or stake to give you some advice on what kind of things should go in your kits.

And again, the following: Our activities include organizing our home, working on gathering a year?s supply of food, and preparing 72-hour kits. It is better to practice a piece of music for ten minutes during six rehearsals than to practice it for one full hour during two rehearsals. This is from Random Sampler in the Ensign.

And under "Local Churches Teach How to Plan for Disasters: Topics included water storage, food rotation, family emergency plans and 72-hour emergency kits.


There are other articles there, if you would want to have a look. This leaves me with the impression that the church is indeed preaching its members to prepare 72-hour kits. Am I wrong???

[mirkwood]

This is from Providentliving.org:


What about 72-hour kits?
Church members are encouraged to prepare for adversity by building a basic supply of food, water, money, and, over time, longer-term supply items. Beyond this, Church members may choose to store additional items that could be of use during times of distress.

http://providentliving.org/content/display/0,11666,7636-1-4104-1,00.html#question_10




I would say that they are not teaching this. It does however fall into "every needful thing" as each individual is prompted.


Here is what I personally think of them(http://www.rogmo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=205):


72 Hour Kits?Are They Really Necessary?
Why are they needed? Many people think that 72 hour kits are suggested by the church. This is inaccurate, although the church has never said not to have them either. I always ask people why they think a 72 hour kit would be needed. I am going to go through the various reasons people have given me for needing them and my thoughts on each. For the area of West Jordan we live in I do not think they are necessary. There are places that I think they would be a good idea, I just think for our neighborhood a kit that will get you home is a better idea. I call this a Get Home Kit and you store it in your car. This is basically the same concept as a 72 hour kit, but will get you home in the event there is a major disaster and you find yourself walking home. I will talk about them more later on. First I want to talk about the typical reasons people want 72 hour kits and why I do not think they will work in those scenarios.
Fire: If there is a fire in your home, you are not going to have time to grab a 72 hour kit. You will be busy evacuating your family. There is the possibility that you would have time to grab the 72 hour kit on your way out, but it should not be a priority. Your first responsibility will be to get your family to safety. If your house burns down, you will have friends, family and the ward that will help you out. Your insurance company will also be providing you with a place to stay.
Flood: There is not a water source in our area that would cause a flood which would create a need to evacuate. There is the possibility of your pipes breaking and flooding out part or your entire house. In that event, you will have friends, family and the ward to help out. Depending on your insurance coverage, they will be providing a place to stay. A 72 hour kit might be nice, but probably unnecessary.
Earthquake: The area we live in is assessed as a low damage area, particularly a section of our neighborhood (http://geology.utah.gov/utahgeo/hazards/eqfault/index.htm (http://geology.utah.gov/utahgeo/hazards/eqfault/index.htm)). Looking at the second map under Ground Shaking we can see our neighborhood falls into the pink/purple and blue color categories. At this link (http://s247.photobucket.com/albums/gg149/Bravo2ZeroTHB/?action=view&current=EQMap.jpg (http://s247.photobucket.com/albums/gg149/Bravo2ZeroTHB/?action=view&current=EQMap.jpg)) you can see our neighborhood in the red circle. The two red dots indicate the two chapels in our stake.
Checking the color coding it shows our damage ratings from 0.2 ? 0.6. The majority of our neighborhood appears to be in the 0.3-0.5 rating which shows low damage and does not include a collapse of structures. This information is based on a 7.0 earthquake. The information listed indicates that our damage will be low and leads me to believe that we will be able to stay in our homes in the aftermath of an earthquake. If you felt the need to leave you could grab a 72 hour kit, but you would also be able to load up on supplies from your storage.
Storms/power outages: If we face a storm that knocks out the power and other utilities, where would you evacuate to? If it is wintertime, would you rather stay in your home with your stores and warm clothing or pack up and leave? A county wide disaster will not leave you anywhere to go unless you have family nearby that you can reach. You would be better off staying home and riding out the storms. All your supplies and warm clothing will be in your home and anywhere else you evacuate too will probably have the same utility loss problems as your home. Unless there is some sort of hazard to your home you are likely to be better off staying home.
Terrorism: The Park Stake is a very unlikely target for terrorism. The most likely threat that we could face in a terrorist attack is a biological attack, dirty bombs or a car bomb. Terrorists would be looking for a target that would cause mass casualties like in the downtown area. Jordan Landing would be a large target, but not like the downtown area. Any attack of a terrorist nature in the downtown area is very unlikely to affect us. Radiation from a dirty bomb is unlikely to come anywhere near us, just as a biological attack is unlikely to reach us. Infected people from a biological attack would probably be quarantined before they could spread out of the initial attack area. If the contagion spread we could all quarantine ourselves in our homes. Car bombs in any area but our immediate vicinity will not affect us at all. Again for our area, the need for a 72 hour kit related to a terrorist attack would probably be unnecessary.
War: If an army was marching through Salt Lake County we would probably flee from our homes. In the unlikely event this happened, there would be forewarning and we would be taking far more then three days of supplies with us. I do not think this is a likely scenario.
The Prophet: If a call from the prophet came telling us we had a few minutes to grab some things and leave, a 72 hour kit would be good to have. However, any such announcement from the prophet would take time to circulate through the wards and stakes of the valley and you would have time to gather some things to take with you.

So What Would Be Better To Have?
A far more useful item for us in our area is what I call a Car Kit or Get Home Kit that stays in your car. The idea behind a car kit is having supplies that will help you get home in the event a disaster occurs while you are away from home. If you are at work or are out shopping when an earthquake or some other major disaster strikes it would be better to have a kit in your car that helps you get home. In the event of a major earthquake this county is going to be wrecked. An earthquake of disastrous magnitude will destroy the road system making it impossible to drive. If somehow the roads are still open, they will be so packed with traffic as to make vehicular traffic improbable. You would be better off by planning on walking home from wherever you are. I plan for a two day walk home. I believe a healthy adult, even in the event of a disaster, can walk anywhere in the county in two days or less. If you have small kids, you can plan on that taking even longer and should plan your kit(s) with that in mind.
The kinds of food items you want in your kit are things that can take extreme temperatures for an extended length of time without degrading their nutritional value. I have used MRE?s (http://beprepared.com/category.asp_Q_c_E_100 (http://beprepared.com/category.asp_Q_c_E_100)) in the past, but over the course of a summer in the trunk they are cooking and cooling every single day. This quickly degrades the taste, texture and nutritional value of the food. I have also used Mountain House freeze dried pouches (http://beprepared.com/quickshoplist.asp_Q_c_E_70_A_name_E_Freeze%20Dried %20in%20Mountain%20House%20Pouches (http://beprepared.com/quickshoplist.asp_Q_c_E_70_A_name_E_Freeze%20Dried %20in%20Mountain%20House%20Pouches)), but again you have the degradation from heat to the food product. The Coast Guard uses the Mainstay Calorie Bar (http://beprepared.com/search.asp?t=ss&ss=mainstay (http://beprepared.com/search.asp?t=ss&ss=mainstay)) as their emergency food storage on their ships. The biggest benefit to this item is the five year shelf life at any temperature between -40 deg F to 300 deg F. They are also non thirst promoting. They come in three sizes, but I recommend the 3600 calorie bar. They can be purchased at Emergency Essentials for $6.95. One of these would give you two days at 1800 calories. Personally I have two in my kit plus a few Power Bars (http://www.powerbar.com (http://www.powerbar.com/)). I make sure that I rotate the Power Bars regularly to maintain their nutritional value because I store my kit in the trunk of my car. Roughly every six months I have new ones in my kit. I also keep four 1 pint water bottles.
I also suggest keeping a pair of durable pants, a t-shirt, a pair of shoes you are comfortable walking long distances in, a spare set of shoelaces, two pair of socks and a good fixed blade knife. I generally do not worry about winter gear because I will already have winter items with me if it is wintertime. If you do not normally have winter gloves and hat, I would suggest adding a pair of wool liner gloves which can be purchased at any grocery store for a couple dollars and a wool watch cap, which can be purchased at any department type store for around five dollars. These can be added into the kit and take little space. You could also add a woolen blanket to your kit. I like the fixed blade knife because it is a versatile tool which may come in handy. The knife needs to include a sheath to prevent accidental cuts.
I would also keep a small amount of cash inside the kit as well. A small zip lock baggie with $10-20 in one dollar bills would be a good idea. You could also use the mini M&M tubes to hold quarters. Each tube will hold about $14 in quarters. These are simple to store in the kit and provide some emergency cash. They are also water proof and have a lid that you can recluse if you use some of the quarters. If you use paper rolls they may become damaged by water or by the shifting movement of your pack. The plastic rolls will not be a problem with water, but once you start cutting them they are not as stable a container. For paper money small bills are a must so that you do not have to pay for a one dollar item with a twenty and not get any change back. Remember, if you are forced to use your car kit, there probably is not any power and your debit cards, credit cards and ATM card will not be working. It is also unlikely that a check would be accepted.
All these items should be stored in some kind of backpack. This keeps your hands free for any other activities you may have to perform. A school backpack is a poor choice but if that is your only option it is better then nothing. There are a great many options available that are highly durable. There are companies that manufacture packs for the military that are highly durable and have been tested in the field with good results. My preferred backpack is made by 511 Tactical. They make two sizes and I use the Rush 24 for my car kit (http://www.511tactical.com/browse/Home/Law-Enforcement/Accessories/Bags-Backpacks/RUSH-24-Backpack/D/30100/P/1:100:10000:10900:10905/I/58601 (http://www.511tactical.com/browse/Home/Law-Enforcement/Accessories/Bags-Backpacks/RUSH-24-Backpack/D/30100/P/1:100:10000:10900:10905/I/58601)). There is a larger pack, the Rush 72 (http://www.511tactical.com/browse/Home/Law-Enforcement/Accessories/Bags-Backpacks/RUSH-72-Backpack/D/30100/P/1:100:10000:10900:10905/I/58602 (http://www.511tactical.com/browse/Home/Law-Enforcement/Accessories/Bags-Backpacks/RUSH-72-Backpack/D/30100/P/1:100:10000:10900:10905/I/58602)). The other companies that I like are Blackhawk (http://www.blackhawk.com/catalog/Packs,28.htm (http://www.blackhawk.com/catalog/Packs,28.htm)), Tactical Assault Gear (http://tacticalassaultgearstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=10 (http://tacticalassaultgearstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=10)), and Camelback (http://www.camelbak.com/ (http://www.camelbak.com/)). All three companies have quality products with good reputations. There are many other options out there, these just happen to be my personal preferences. There are also companies that manufacture packs for hiking and camping, again with good reputations. These are highly durable packs and will withstand the wear and tear of riding in the trunk of your vehicle. This may not sound like a big deal, but a school type backpack will be worn after a year or so of riding around in the trunk. This can result in dumping out the contents of your kit when you go to put it on. If you buy a $10 backpack that is what you will get. It is better to pay a little more for an item that will hold up in the event you need it. There are also a few less expensive options in packs that will serve you well, but lack some of the extra features in the more expensive packs. My choice of less expensive packs are the German Mountain Rucksack (http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=223043 (http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=223043)) and the US Army ALICE Pack, with metal frame(http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/used-us-military-issue-large-pack-with-metal-frame.aspx?a=545634 (http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/used-us-military-issue-large-pack-with-metal-frame.aspx?a=545634)) or just shoulder straps (http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/used-us-military-alice-pack-with-shoulder-straps.aspx?a=297533 (http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/used-us-military-alice-pack-with-shoulder-straps.aspx?a=297533)).
After you build your kit you need to try it on and walk around with if for a little while. This will give you an idea on the weight and balance of the pack. You need to make sure your pack will work for you. If it is too heavy you will need to make some adjustments so that you can actually carry your supplies.
Let me also add these final thoughts on 72 hour kits. I am not opposed to the idea of 72 hour kits I just feel for our neighborhood a Car Kit is a better idea. Personally I also have 72 hour kits in my home and I believe there are areas that a 72 hour kit in addition to a Car Kit is a good idea. You can find some good information on 72 hour kits on my website (http://www.rogmo.com/72_hr_kits.html (http://www.rogmo.com/72_hr_kits.html)). Personally I prefer to build my own kits, but some people would rather go out and buy one. I have seen two sites where I thought the pre-made kits were any good. They can be found at Totally Ready (http://www.totallyready.com (http://www.totallyready.com/)) and Emergency Essentials (http://beprepared.com/category.asp_Q_c_E_120_A_name_E_EmergencyKits (http://beprepared.com/category.asp_Q_c_E_120_A_name_E_EmergencyKits)). I like what I see of the contents a bit better at Totally Ready though I would still add the Mainstay Calorie Bar. The only thing I am unsure with both companies is the backpack because it does not list who makes them. If I had to pick between the two I would go with Totally Ready and add a Mainstay Calorie Bar or two.

[Toni]

I looked for info from the church on 72 hour kits a while back, to see if they talked about them and couldn't find anything, but I was looking in conference talks not in regular Ensign articles. So, thanks for the info.

I do like the idea of a car kit or a get home kit.

[4evermama]

Mirk's post is great. It's thorough and consistant with everything I've ever been told.
I served for 3 years as Emergency Preparedness/Foodstorage specialist. After 2 years, in YW, I'm back again...by default.
When counseled by my SP, he agreed with the "every needful thing" concept of the pack. It is a great item to have. But it doesn't replace other counsel.

A few years ago I attended a Disaster Preparedness Summit with our state and local representatives as well as our local Police and Fire Chiefs...Army Corp and Port Authority were also there.
The general consensus was to have a Car Kit as well as a 72hr kit. You have to consider the amount of time that you are actually away from your home...for many, it is substantial.
Statistically speaking, we are more likely to have occurances that will force us to sit in place. The Governor was very clear....what happened with Katrina was not that far off from reality...response time will be delayed consistant with the severity of the disaster. "You will be on your own" were the Governor's exact words. So...we have to be prepared until help can arrive. In such a situation, a pack could prove invaluable.

With all of that said, I personally gave over fifteen 72hr kit presentations in those 3 years....yes, all to my home ward. I won't do another one. What I have come to realize is that the 72hr kit concept is something that I believe can almost be a hindrance when helping people to learn how to prepare. Since I was called again, the most common response that I've heard is "well, I have my backpack...I'm sure that will get me through". The apathy is unreal. In the last 8 cannery appointments reserved for our ward, 5 people managed to show up....total.

Preparedness encompasses so many aspects in our lives... food, protection, communication, spirituality, etc. I do wonder, sometimes, if the term "emergency preparedness" is actually a testament of how distant we are from what is real. This concept used to be considered "common sense", "honey-do's" or even just "stuff that needs to get done". My grandparents were ready for anything that came their way; and I don't remember any commitee meetings, agendas or counsel positions. They were simply living their lives. They were busy raising us and making memories. We were safe and never hungry. As kids, we never thought about "preparedness"...we were doing chores, climbing trees and digging holes to China. The adults had things under control...and we were usually right beside them...learning as we went.

Obeying the Lord's counsel should become a way of life...not a task to be checked off and forgotten.

OK, lecture over. :rolleyes:

[waif69]

the most common response that I've heard is "well, I have my backpack...I'm sure that will get me through".

I think that a common attitude, I've been guilty of this too, is that if I have what I need, then I can figure out the rest. Not everyone has the training I do, and I don't have enough training to handle all the situations that I could wind up in. Our survival skills are, simply put, perishable skills. We need to constantly refresh and train. When I get ready to teach a firearms class, I reread the manual and refresh, as I know that I have gotten stale since the last class I taught or attended.

For example, I was sick (nothing major) for the better part of a month, during that time I missed 4 weeks of Aikido. When I came back, I realized how much I have slipped back and had to relearn some of the material that I knew.

We have to train, we have to refresh.

[mirkwood]

Mirk's post is great. It's thorough and consistant with everything I've ever been told.



Thanks. BTW in case you missed it. The first link goes to the entire presentation I give, not just the car kit info.

[4evermama]

WOW! Great work.Your information is well organized and appears quite efficient for group presentation.
I especially like the sections regarding responsibility and charity.
I was recently in a Sunday meeting, discussing the 10 virgins parable, and one sister commented "if the Lord was truly merciful, then he would have turned NO ONE away...maybe he should rethink his position".
I would have been stunned had I actually been surprised. But the truth is, I wasn't. The whole exchange just left me exhausted.

Even though I contribute little (to none) to this forum, I can't emphasize enough the blessings that I feel having found a resource like GLO. First of all, the information grows steadily and addresses pertinent concerns.
Secondly, the site provides a much needed "deep breath" on days where the trek seems so isolated and steep.

[hiccups]

I was recently in a Sunday meeting, discussing the 10 virgins parable, and one sister commented "if the Lord was truly merciful, then he would have turned NO ONE away...maybe he should rethink his position".

Did no one address this? Sheesh, I'd have had to point out that no one turned away was pretty much Satan's plan and we fought a war in Heaven against that idea.

It boggles the mind...

[mirkwood]

jaw drops...

[signseeker]

Yeah, some things you just can't leave hanging in the air...j

Glad I wasn't there. :frown2:

[hiccups]

Yeah, some things you just can't leave hanging in the air...j

Glad I wasn't there. :frown2:

I kinda wish you were there. I would love to hear the rest of THAT story. :smilielol5:

[signseeker]

That's when I let the "first thing that comes to mind" run through my mind with my mouth shut! "You're telling the God that MADE you He needs to rethink His position?! What exactly does justice mean to you?"

I'm so glad the Sunbeams don't think up krap like this.

See, it's the whole "God is unconditional" problem that has crept in to some people's beliefs. Everything, ESPECIALLY OUR ETERNAL REWARDS, is conditional. Sheesh. The only thing that may be argued is unconditional is God's OFFERING of eternal life. He offers it to everyone, but like Lehi's dream illustrates, WE must take action to receive that gift. Did Laman/Lemuel receive the love of God? No. Was it offered? Yes.

[sarge712]

Oooookay. Make that twice in one day I'm speechless...some kind of record for me. I've got a twisted mind but this is...is...is...well I'm speechless! Duuuuurrrrr...

[4evermama]

Oh, believe me, the comment was handled. I was very careful not to lose control but at that point I was not concerned about "hurting feelings".
This happened in YW....in front of the girls. Unbelievable.

What I found so sickening was the disrespect of the Savior. I reiterated that along with the scriptures,which is documentation of his will, we have modern day prophets to lead us NOW, in these times. A response was made that "men are fallible". At that point my patience thinned. With firmness, I responded by saying that we only serve one master... ONE.
I addressed to the girls (not the women at that point) that the Lord should be our compass....NOT the ideas of man. That ONLY through him will we find our salvation....true joy. We must be accountable for ourselves. No one else can do the work for us. This is a personal journey...one that requires work and responsibility. I told them that if they hold close to Him, through study and prayer and great faith, that they will not be led astray by false doctrine. That only by loving him and obeying his commandments will we be reunited with the one person that we chose to defend and represent.
I ended it by declaring my gratitude for the atonement and my belief that He is the one true Savior.

The room fell silent and then the YW pres offerred a closing prayer...5 minutes early. The YW pres released me from the calling 6 days later...which was fine with me. But with divine guidance, I have no doubt, the whole lot of them were released 2 weeks after this debacle. At that point, sisters were called that are very much in step with the Lord's wisdom. So, all in all, I was glad that it happened.
Good public opinion is not something that I am concerned with. I will never sit quietly when this type of situation arises. I sit quietly most of the time and because of that I am often mistakenly thought of as meek. Not the case. "Much knowledge comes from observation and patience" was advice from my grandfather that I hold close.

So, what does this have to do with 72hr kits?
(Well, maybe this should have been posted on another thread.)
I do believe that we should be very carefull to listen to the Lord and follow his wisdom in ALL things. Much dissension comes from doubt...it is the device of the adversary. We have to trust that the Lord loves us and knows what is best.

So, preparedness and testimonies come down to the same thing.... faith and obedience.

[signseeker]

Awesome, 4evermama! :yesnod:

[sarge712]

...I am often mistakenly thought of as meek. Not the case...
Hahahahaha! Reminds me of the time when I didn't ask for help when my wife was sick and the most meek, mild woman I know fired me up and threatened to hurt me if I ever hid that kind of situation again. I step lightly around Sister Otter now. Boy did I ever misjudge that book by its cover....

[Toni]

I was recently in a Sunday meeting, discussing the 10 virgins parable, and one sister commented "if the Lord was truly merciful, then he would have turned NO ONE away...maybe he should rethink his position".


That's when I let the "first thing that comes to mind" run through my mind with my mouth shut! "You're telling the God that MADE you He needs to rethink His position?! What exactly does justice mean to you?"

My daughter pointed out that this is exactly what the world thinks when it thinks of justice: that everyone gets a second chance over and over and over again even if they don't deserve it over and over and over again (ad infinitum).

[prevent_damage]

Great post. There are a lot of things that you don't need in your 72 hour kit. I think if you can carry it though the more you have the better off you will be.